House Mertyns of Mistwood

Discussion in 'The Stormlands' started by SerLoras, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. APPLICATION

    SerLoras and Dartman are proud to present.... our application for House Mertyns of Mistwood!



    We have been working long and hard on ideas for this app, and we are finally ready for wider feedback!

    The Google Doc is best viewed from the docs page. Here is a direct link.

    This application ended up being quite long, so here are some quick links to the good stuff (aka the pictures!).

    Maps of Mistwood

    Mistwood Castle Test

    Mistwood House Style Test

    Town Landscape and Tree-Walks Test

    Tests can be found in game at /warp mistwoodtest and /warp serloras.

    For more info you'll have to read the app :p
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    NEW! MINI-PROJECTS
    Now Open for Apps! - 06/13/18

    Mistwood Castle Interiors
    /warp mistwood
    • Plan room layouts and furnish Mistwood Castle interiors, and exterior yards.
    • Some previous castle/high class interior experience is preferred.
    • Application should consist of an interior test of the top 3 floors of the Tower of Owls (the big, pointy, round tower, with the hoarding around the top)
    • The top floor is a large solar with a modest dining table (see Canon Analysis). The lower floors should contain bed chambers for Lord and Lady Mertyns, a privy, and other related amenities.

    Tree-Walk Houses

    /warp misttown
    • Complete construction of exteriors for treehouses along the tree-walks, and furnish treehouse interiors according to their designated function. (Each treehouse is labeled with a particular role — watchtower, barracks, armory, storage, etc.)
    • Application should consist of test versions of exteriors and interiors for a few different treehouse types.
    • Early treehouse tests can be found at /warp loras.

    MINI-PROJECTS

    Now Open for Apps! - 12/10/17

    If you are interested in applying please review the information about the available mini-projects below and visit the site in game using the provided warps. Tests of the major components of a mini-project are appreciated for apps. Please contact Dart or myself in game if you need any assistance.

    Children’s Cave

    /warp mistcave
    • Large cave complex on the road to Mistwood with multiple different chambers and tunnels. The cave was inhabited by the children of the forest and they created wall carvings and fashioned columns and other structures out of the cave walls.
    • See Canon Analysis on the cave from Arianne II in The Winds of Winter.
    • Given the presence of Children of the Forest, the cave should incorporate some weirwoods (similar to the greenseer cave, but not on as grand of scale).
    • E-Lite and some terraforming experience is recommended
    Logging Hamlet 1 - COMPLETED
    /warp mistham2

    Logging Hamlet 2
    /warp mistham3
    • A small hamlet south-east of Mistwood on the southern edge of the Rainwood, where the the forest is less dense.
    • There should be approximately 6-8 houses and an area of forest where trees are cut down including some stumps of already chopped trees.
    • There should also be a lumber yard where the wood can be processed.
    • Houses should be similar in style to /warp misttown.

    Fur Trading Hamlet 1 - COMPLETED
    /warp mistham1

    Fur Trading Hamlet 2

    /warp mistham4
    • A small hamlet fairly deep in the forest north of Mistwood where hunters gather/live and trade and process furs acquired in the surrounding woods.
    • There should be approximately 6-8 houses and a small trading hall where furs can be prepared, stored, and traded.

    • Buildings should have their own unique style, but still be loosely similar to those at /warp misttown.
    • There should be a nearby holdfast to protect the outpost. The holdfast should be a small watchtower type structure in a similar style to Mistwood Castle.
    Knight's Lodge - COMPLETED
    /warp mistvassal
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    ____________________________
    UPDATES:

    Update v.1.1 - 10/10/17

    - Wall tests galore!
    Check out the screenshots for the town wall tests or find them in game at /warp serloras.​
    - There's a whole new tower!
    See the screenshots or go find our new square tower in game at /warp mistwoodtest
    - Gradients!
    We have some gradient samples ready now. They are also in the screenshots, and you can also find them at /warp mistwoodtest


    Update v1.1.1 - 10/11/17

    -Updated maps!
    2 new map changes to incorporate feedback regarding house classes in Mistwood town, and to add the suggested additional rivers.​
    -Improved gradients!
    Gradient tests are now done in an eroded/withered style.​
    -Improved towers!
    Half doors have been removed from towers, and a mossy log gradient test has been added to the southwest tower.​
    -Double-thick walls
    Added an image for one of our interior tests that was using double-thick walls to hide the logs on the inside.​
    -Layout adjustments
    Changed the positioning of a few walls and buildings to accommodate the new square base on the tower.​

    (All tests are at /warp mistwoodtest. Also check out the attached screenshots.)


    Mistwood Update v2.0

    - Completely Redesigned Castle!
    Mistwood Castle has been completely rebuilt. This version moves away from the log/wood materials and incorporates more stone.​
    - New Landscaping and Defenses!
    The area around Mistwood Castle has been re-terraformed to incorporate more interesting, and less flat terrain that is more in line with canon descriptions of the Rainwood and more easily defensible.​
    - Improved Features!
    Mistwood Town has its own eastern gate for better access to town, and there is now a postern path connecting the town and castle.
    (The new castle design can be found in game at /warp mistcastletest. Also check out the attached screenshots.)

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    ____________________________
    PROGRESS:

    Mistwood Progress I - 10/23/17

    -Town Planning
    Finished terraforming and road planning for the town. Houses in the town have also been fully plotted, and have been tagged with their planned professions. Farm lands north and south of town have also been plotted and tagged.​
    -Surrounding Lands Terraform
    Reterraformed much of the surrounding land to remove old trees and fill holes. Extended ridges east and west of Mistwood to provide natural defenses for the castle and town.​
    -Tree Walks
    Paths for tree walks have been plotted, and new Redwoods to use for the walks have been placed.​
    -Other Details
    The Sept of the Forest and its surrounding Godswood has been constructed east of the castle. (See the "Points of Interest" section of our original app for related canon discussion.) Additionally, the castle garden has been decorated, and the palisade wall south of town has been constructed.​

    (Maps and Screenshots are attached. All changes can be found in game at /warp mistwood.)

    Mistwood Progress II - 12/01/17

    -Town Construction
    Mistwood Town is nearly complete. All houses are built. Only a few final terraforming touches are required.​
    -Farming Hamlets
    Fields are complete at farming hamlets. Farmer houses and barns are open for building. Only 1 plot left in the south farming hamlet!​
    -Tree Walks
    Tree Walk bridges are now complete. There is also a new walk-connected guard tower and a stair allowing easy tree walk access around Mistwood. Work will soon begin on treehouse interiors.​
    -Castle Improvements
    Improvements and have been made to the castle yard, and work has begun on castle interiors. Approx. 40% Completion.​
    -Terraforming
    Surrounding forest is being terraformed. Most of the area around Mistwood has complete vegetation and tree cover. Locations for mini-projects have been plotted, and will be open for apps soon.​
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  2. LOVE IT
     
    SerLoras and Dartman like this.
  3. Dartman

    Dartman Builder

    Thanks Cash!
     
  4. Howy

    Howy Thanos Maester

    This is an incredible application, and a excellent example of the standards builders should aspire to when making their own project apps. I do have a few concerns I'd like addressed before approval:

    • There are a lot of cabins. I understand the reasons, however on our scale I think it could be cut back. Some are especially close.
    • The Castle has a few issues I need to check:
      • Gradient? The castle currently only has one block type for its stone. I assume the gradient will be added later, in which case I'd like to see an example of the gradient before approval.
      • Wood halfdoors over the stone on the tower. It breaks up for plain palette well, but doesn't make much sense imo. Do you have an example of wood over stone? The bland issue should be fixed with a gradient (see my point above).
      • I like the moss on the logs. I don't want it overused, but I'd like it used more than currently. It breaks up the logs nicely, making what normally doesn't translate well in mc actually look good.
      • The main tower. I love everything about the castle except the main tower! My recommendation is that you:
        • A. Make it square with turrets (in a similiar manner to Herston - do NOT apply the old stormlands massive square towers), and
        • B. Instead of using full spruce planks, just use halfdoors around the top floor in a similiar manner. The intent of my request is that it doesn't 'bulge' as much. MC unfortunately can be crap for having overhangs on towers on a thin scale. This might be fixed with a square tower - I would be okay if you presented two new main tower tests, one with halfdoors and one with spruce plank blocks.
    • Do you have an example of the palisade wall? I wouldnt mind a thin wooden 'fort' style similar to your second-from-left (top) image under 'Castle Inspiration'. Its a neat design, including the raised hill and moat.
    Those are my main concerns for now. I might spot others throughout the application process or post-approval, in which case I will raise them here or via PM. Otherwise, great app! I look forward to seeing how you address my above feedback.
     
  5. Hey Howy! Thanks for all the great feed back.

    1. We can for sure cut back on the cabins. I will work on an updated map to illustrate that.
    2. You're right about the gradient. We were planning to apply that later, but we can definitely work up a few tests for that.
    3. You're also right in your your assumption that we added the half doors to make that tower less plain looking, though it hadn't occurred to me that adding the gradient would fix that on its own. I think those probably just need to come off, we'll get on that as well.
    4. The moss currently on the logs was just a few patches intended to test out the idea. We were planning to apply that more broadly to the wood on the castle at the same time that we added gradient to the stone.
    5. a. The bit about the tower is the feedback I am least excited to hear because I am quite fond of that style (especially how it comes across in that first castle inspiration image). We were planning to add windows/balconies and other embellishments down the sides of the tower to make it less plain looking, for what thats worth.
    b. Still Herston is a really good suggestion, and we can start putting together some tests for a tower in that style.
    6. For the palisade wall I had envisioned something more like the one that we have around the castle's inner moat, but slightly larger with a walk behind it. I do really like the suggestion of that wooden fort from out inspiration section though. We will put together some tests for that as well.
     
    Elduwin and Dartman like this.
  6. Hey Loras & Dart, this is indeed an excellent app! I echo the feedback Howy said above. Here's a couple more brief points that I have so far (if I have more time soon I'll do a more thorough read):

    - What types of crops were you intending to be grown? I think it can be inferred that growing wheat etc. in that environment would be pretty impractical, so I'd suggest sticking to vegetables.

    - I'd nix the oak wood from the house variants, in contrast to the other dark block it seems almost yellow-ish and there's already plenty of variation in the other examples.

    - I'm not sure where @Aslanio has been or what the status on the Rainwood redo is, but I'd say you (or an Editor) could do the area required for Mistwood if you make an effort to stay true to the style outlined in the redo plans. Perhaps if Aslan is still following the forums he could give a brief tutorial on his process.
     
    Elduwin and Dartman like this.
  7. 1. I agree wheat would seem odd in the middle of a forest. Melons specifically are mentioned in passing when crops are discussed in the canon, so we'll have to have those. Other gourds like pumpkins and squash would seem to make sense as well. I would also throw in cabbage, carrots, and beats to fill things out, but I worry that might be too much variety? Would there be anything to the idea of having berries? They seem to make sense in a forest type environment.

    2. Consider the oak wood variant nixed.

    3. I am happy to reach out to @Aslanio. He seems to have liked my original post, so he can't be too far.
     
    Emotione11, Elduwin and Dartman like this.
  8. Dartman

    Dartman Builder

    Thank you mods & Friends for the valuable feedback :)
     
    Andy_Jones likes this.
  9. Such an excellent application guys! We can really see how much work you've put into it! :D
    I'd just ask a few more details for the small town:
    - what proportion of mid and low-low/mid?
    - what kind of professions? any specific activity or industry, maybe related to the wood?
    Congrats again for the app!
     
  10. Dartman

    Dartman Builder

    Thanks Elduwin! We appreciate the praise!

    1. I don't think we'll know the exact proportion till we get to plotting the town proper. As an approximation, there will be majority Mid/Mid-high in the center of the town; and the low/low-low on the outer side. I have a general idea in my head but I don't really know how to put it on paper.

    2. Foresters, Farmers, and Hunters make up a majority of the common workforce. There are of course basic professions you see in every town though; carpenter, black smith, etc. Also have been thinking about throwing a herbalist in there.
     
    Elduwin likes this.
  11. Hey Eld,

    Here is a break down of the classes I had planned for the houses on the current map.



    Brown is low class, orange is low-middle, green is middle, blue is middle-high. As far as professions I will pretty much echo what Dart had to say.
     
    Elduwin likes this.
  12. Mmmmh, I think you have too many high-mid/mid class houses. I'd remove the high-mid, and do only 1/3 of houses in the total.
    Hence, for approximately 25 houses:
    - 9-10 low
    - 8-9 low-mid
    - 6-7 mid
    Keep in mind that, as far as I can see, the lands aren't providing this town lot of wealth, so don't overestimate the wealth of the houses. :)
     
    PoziPoisonDart and Ben like this.
  13. Ben

    Ben Builder

    Great application guys. It's very clear you guys have put a lot of work and effort into this application. I also echo Elduwin's concern about the houses. I feel that the High-Mid class should be removed and the main style should be low class.

    Take this into account. Being in the Stormlands, houses and structures would most-likely be damaged pretty often due to weather conditions, especially so when the lands of House Mertyns are on Cape Wrath which is known as a stormy and forested peninsula. Because of these storms and the need to rebuild or repair, people would most-likely not be building nice houses or even have the money to. Even more so, being located in such a dense forest like the Rainwood, it would be a lot more difficult for people to find things to do to build up their wealth. Downfalls being inclement weather conditions, mediocre soil for farming, and living fairly remotely in the middle of a forest tends to not allow much interaction with people to trade goods and whatnot.

    Also, even though farming is recorded on Cape Wrath, by no means is it as fertile as the Reach or even the Riverlands. It would be extremely difficult for farmers to produce crops and the fields would probably not even yield anything some years because of terrible weather. I live in an area that is very fertile and our weather is nothing like that of the stormy Rainwood and even our fields will sometimes not yield that much because of a bit too much rain or not enough. Farming is very temperamental and is definitely something that should be thought through in this project.

    One suggestion I have for the castle, which I think would be a neat touch considering the sigil of House Mertyns, would be to incorporate a dovecote that could be used for owls in this case. Could be a neat little element to include which would reference the house sigil. Below are examples of the outside and inside of a dovecote, respectively.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I really enjoy your castle tests and the plans you have for the build. It seems as though you guys have a lot of good plans and I look forward to watching the progress of this build if it gets approved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
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  14. Hey Ben, thanks for the feed back.

    The farming thing is definitely something we have put some thought into. There are canon references in the Mistwood chapter to "crops" being grown by the small folk, but the only specific kind of crop that is mentioned are melons. There is some semi-canon information from Martin that seems to suggest that the rain wood is more amenable to farming than one would otherwise expect given the climate.

    http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Stormlands

    [Summary: The writer wonders at how the Stormlands could compare in any way with the other major regions, given its lack of cities, it's seemingly-average lands, and so on.]

    Well, you're right that there are no major cities in the stormlands, but that doesn't necessarily mean the lands are poor. Cape Wrath, the rainwood, and the kingswood are all fertile enough, albeit somewhat rainy.

    Our current plan for the crops is to stick mostly to vegetables that would have a better time with poorer soil.

    I love the idea of a dovecote for owls! I definitely want to try and work that in.
     
    Ben likes this.
  15. Just going to give my usual spiel on house classes, but I highly recommend avoiding (except for in large towns/cities) using language like "low/middle/upper class" for houses, but rather try to make the distinction of peasants/serfs vs. merchants/craftsmen vs. vassals/lords. A typical castle and manorial system would typically be mostly serfs under control of the lord, by the late medieval stages some small towns or villages of wealthier merchants began popping up at major trading points. But as Ben said, it wouldn't make sense for a place in the middle of a dense stormy rainforest to be a major trading hub. So most of the people in the central village would likely be working to create output for the lord in return for protection.

    Regarding the crops, I agree melons are a good option, and a couple types of veggies. No need to have too much diversity in crops, or else it might seem random given the small areas cleared out for them. Berries would likely just be harvested in the woods, not grown in masses.
     
  16. Is there anything to the idea of Mistwood as a (modest) trading point for furs? With perhaps a merchant or 2 in the business of acquiring furs from hunters and distributing them? Fine furs would seem to be the most mercantile good the Rainwood could produce.
     
  17. Hi guys, lovely app!
    So a few things:
    1: I am assuming fields, when plotted, will be less arbitrarily shaped? If not, I would make them more rectangular, larger, less rounded, also have more of them, since this area is rather isolated.
    2: I know this is in the middle of a massive forest, but I think you guys should stay away from using too many logs in your houses/castle (I spoke with you ingame about this).
    3: The hunting and fur trading hamlets seem awfully large, I might knock the number of houses on them down to about 6.
    4: For crops, everything seems good as you replied in an earlier post, maybe add beans, and even cranberries in very boggy areas. I would also add some grain storages to the town, they would probably need to stockpile it since they dont grow it in the immediate area.
    5: I think the blue northern wood looks out of place, and the yellow wood also to an extent. I think you should stick with jungle, red wood, and maybe some oak for the town houses.

    Looks amazing, best of luck!
    -duck
     
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  18. Dartman

    Dartman Builder

    Thanks for all the feedback duck! Duly noted :)
    although, the yellow wood in the house tests is oak wood. But it looks very yellow by contrast so we decided to remove it anyways.
     
  19. Alright boys and girls, here is an update on some recent changes.

    Mistwood Update v.1.1

    - Wall tests galore!
    Check out the screenshots for the town wall tests or find them in game at /warp serloras.​

    - There's a whole new tower!

    See the screenshots or go find our new square tower in game at /warp mistwoodtest

    - Gradients!

    We have some gradient samples ready now. They are also in the screenshots, and you can also find them at /warp mistwoodtest

     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
    Elduwin, Howy and Dartman like this.
  20. I think you're getting there with the castle, but aren't quite there yet. Now seeing the all-log gatehouse I actually think thats an awesome style, which also makes me think that those half-door supports you still have on all the wooden structures seem out of place. Like realistically, what is their equivalent?

    When it comes to the gradient I can only warmly recommend not using a bottom-to-top gradient. Instead, think about points of erosion/ withering. Here I'd recommend taking a closer look at harvest hall, winterfell and the red keep.

    Later when it comes to the interiors of wooden structures, you'd want to make sure that you can clearly contrast the furniture from the ceiling, walls and floors. Hence, I recommend that you plan with double-thick structures all the way!! Trust me, you'll be grateful that you can use a lighter plaster or panelling on the inside of dark spruce walls, or that you can use a carpet or thatch, or even just a lighter type of wood for the floorboards. (If you don't believe me check out the old Raventreehall, its a brown mess).
     
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